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DISCUSSMark Driscoll Kicks His Own Ass
07/01/2008By Jesse Benjamin
Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, took a dramatic stand against girly men at a Pastor’s Conference in Houston last week.
The conference, called “re:tool and re:load,” previously billed as “jesus 2.0,” featured speakers from around the country with the stated focus of “Making the Gospel and Missiology Relevant to Post Modern Culture.” Speaking at the last session of the conference, Driscoll focused his three-and-a-half-hour talk on the need for pastors to be more alpha.
“The problem with our churches today is that the lead pastor is some sissy boy who wears cardigan sweaters, has The Carpenters dialed in on his iPod, gets his hair cut at a salon instead of a barber shop, hasn’t been to an Ultimate Fighting match, works out on an elliptical machine instead of going to isolated regions of Russia like in Rocky IV in order to harvest lumber with his teeth, and generally swishes around like Jack from Three’s Company whenever Mr. Roper was around.”
Pacing the stage in a vaguely threatening manner, Driscoll focused on Biblical examples. “Jesus and Paul were serious dudes. They had teeth missing. Jesus was a carpenter, Paul was in prison. These guys didn’t eat tofu dogs and bean sprouts. They didn’t play tennis. If there were trucks back in their times, they would have been doing driveway lube jobs on a Saturday afternoon. Same thing with King David. Yeah, he might have played a lyre, but he slaughtered thousands of guys.”
The 300 pastors from around the country roared with approval, even though many of them had heard the same labored formulations at previous conferences called “reGeneration” and “resurge and reform.”
“At the Re:Ignite conference he talked about how Jesus and Peter didn’t wear matching sweatshirts that said ‘Best Buds’,” said John Kinston, a conference attendee who was live-blogging the event.
Kinston is emblematic of the many young pastors who support Driscoll. He planted Kiona Community Church three years ago in downtown Louisville, Kentucky. He attends 37 Mark Driscoll conferences each year, because he said he needs the support of fellow church planters and the inspiration of steroidal statistics.
“Numbers aren’t important, but we’ve grown 81.7% a year since our launch date and I still can’t get the guys to step up and be warriors," said Kinston. "We want to love our city and we can’t do that with a bunch of pansies who would rather play video games than go to a monster truck rally or tattoo their faces like Mike Tyson.
“At last year’s Converging Conference, Driscoll talked about standing up when you piss and I got really excited. We started a men’s-only Bible Accountability Group. It was a combination of scripture study and Muy Thai Stick Fighting. It was great for a few weeks, until my worship pastor lost an eye. I had to make a tough call then and there: no more Muy Thai Stick Fighting at Kiona Community without protective face gear. I still think it might have been a spiritual compromise.”
In Houston, Driscoll was intent on making absolutely clear that he is in favor of masculinity. At the 2 hour, 15 minute mark, he invited five pastors from the audience to take the stage, put his hands behind his back, stuck out his chin, and said, “Hit me with your best shot. Go on. I won’t hit you back. I want to show everyone what this is all about.” When none of the five took a swing, Driscoll had them escorted from the building and proceeded to hit himself five times.
“This is what being a pastor is about, guys. If you can’t handle it, go back to teaching yoga or playing My Little Pony with the other girls.”
The rest of the session followed the same general tone, with Driscoll ridiculing insulated coffee cups, haiku and dental floss as feminine while extolling athletic cups, tobacco spit and broken load-bearing bones as being “essential for a pastor.”
The blogosphere heated up quickly in the wake of Driscoll’s talk. At Jesuswasaman.blogspot.com, one post read, “This is the only thing that will turn back the tide of the Church’s decline in America. Until more guys step up and start punching themselves in the face, people will continue to leave the Church.”
Driscoll’s detractors had their say as well. At thereisaplacefordriscollinhellbesidehitler.wordpress.com, Angel23 said, “It doesn’t matter that Driscoll’s church has 6,000 people coming to worship God, if he continues to use words like sissy he will be smited.”
Driscoll turned down our request for an interview, saying, “Interviews are for wimpy guys who wear Sans-a-Belt slacks and chew sugar-free gum.”
Post Script:
If Rob had his way, it seems, Jesus would've fought back, perhaps been beaten to death instead of crucified, and we'd all still be without hope. Nope, just don’t buy it.
This article was hillarious, probably one of the funniest things that I have ever read. It was made up right? I mean people here are talking about it like it is a piece of journalsim. This is Onion-eque journalism, right? I mean he didnt actually do the "hit me!" thing, did he?
Driscoll is an odd duck. I mean he lives in Seattle, which is in the top five of the gayest/pinko/jewy/sweatervest wearing towns in America, and he does nothing but bash the culture. If he is really such a proud fundamentalist then shouldnt he be all things to all men? A cokehead dateraping fratboy to the cokehead dateraping fratboys, and a sensitive poet cardigan wearer to the sensitive poet cardigan wearers. If he really wants the knuckle dragging daterapist then maybe he should move his church to Dallas or Oklahoma City where the culture is slightly more prevalent.
And is he trying to get the dateraping frat boys to join his church, or is he trying to convert the pinko warhol wannabees to dateraping frat boys?
Does anyone else find it to be incredibly ironic that his church is called Mars Hill, while the spirit of his church stands in such stark contrast to what Paul did at Mars Hill?
Most of these comments really break my heart. Why are we sitting on the computer bashing Mark Driscoll and Rob Bell when that is so contrary to the message that Jesus taught?
"Love your neighbor as yourself" means that if you are going to call yourself a Christian, you are to love your fellow Christian even if they are a little more conservative than you, even if they slip up and put their foot in their mouth on occasion, even if they struggle with legalism or pride...
So lets stop mocking each other and just LOVE one another. We're going to be spending eternity together, so you better figure out how to get along!
the comments on this post are oh so entertaining.
I appreciate both Driscoll and Bell. Personally, I relate to Driscoll's philosophy on manhood. I also like his no-nonsense approach to preaching truth, which I think the church needs more of. However, I also appreciate Rob Bell's attitude towards loving others and thinking about what you believe. Any apologist who is honest with themselves would do that. I also agree with rebuking those in the Church who are teaching error, but we must preach the truth in love.
Ok I'm done ranting.
Why is it that modern Christian leaders can't seem to keep themselves from overreacting to everything? Geez.
Yes, the emergent church is full of heresies. I am glad that Mr. Driscoll has chosen to address said heresies. However, why is it necessary that he continues to alienate his brothers (and sisters) in Christ? So apparently one can only be a good leader if he scratches his balls while he stands in front of his congregation preaching reformed theolgoy, huh? Grunting, farting, and espousing the doctrines of grace?
And since when is a strong man defined by violence and vulgarity? How presumptuous of Driscoll to define for an entire people what constitutes manhood!
So much for "Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." I guess those are pretty wimpy too, huh.
Mark is over the top sometimes with his masculinity, but you have to understand he's trying to counteract the lost masculinity of Christian men in America. Theologically he's very solid. He's brash, over the top and loud, but it worked for Luther, why not Driscoll? He's shown humility by repenting for his arrogance in front of his entire congregation, then put the sermon out to the whole world, so it isn't as if the man is hiding his sin. He has submitted himself to authorities. He has brought in an older staff member for the sole purpose of keeping Driscoll and the other pastors accountable.
"Numbers aren’t important, but we’ve grown 81.7% a year since our launch date...."
I just love this. "I'm not a clock-watcher or anything, but you are 3.5 minutes late....
If you want a “non-sissy” theology or, put more intelligently, a counter-hegemonic theology than don’t listen to a guy who proclaims an apolitical call to manhood and non-relevant personal morality, listen instead to folks who did put their lives on the line for the poor and the oppressed by standing up to the status quo. This Christianity—emergent, emerging (who really cares how its compartmentalized)—is an trendy and Un-PC version of “Jesus Camp”—instead of crying children you have lumber jack pastors who, by their message, one would assume they go home and reveal their wife-beaters and go cut down trees and dig holes to 80s hair bands. What is this, Joe Dirt goes to seminary?
Furthermore Driscoll’s Theology is not new or revitalizing. Replace the unsympathetic conservative political undertones and noncritical patriotism of America as a City on a Hill, of Pat Robertson with trite mental masturbations and un-PC verbal pre-ejaculations of traditional social roles and neo-Calvinistic predestination and you have the unresponsive and impassive theology of Mark Driscoll. He offers no new or, for that matter, relevant suggestions to crucial sociopolitical or socio-religious problems. It almost appears as if he wants church to be a boys club of moral “manly” men who somehow are suppose to respect and yet subjugate their wives. It offers no response and thus no hope for the ongoing and deep political lethargy or cultural decay which haunts the American society.
Well said. It's far to easy to fall into legalism as a means of avoiding our true calling of loving as Jesus loved. I honestly don't see anyone's interest in this guy as there is no biblical truth to anything he just said. When will this joke be over?
Read the Bible, Jesus was a compassionate guy. He wasn't a tough guy, he wasn't an alpha male, he wasn't an asshole. Christianity should be a religion of nonviolence, love, and more importantly, understanding. If a bunch of guys want to sit around and play with swords and go to monster truck rallies, that's fine. Just don't pretend that someone as great as Jesus supports that (or worse yet, represents that). This movement in the 'nondenominational' Christian church needs to be stopped. Don't buy it, don't be a chauvinist, learn to love and respect other and their differences. BE THE BETTER PERSON (that's what Jesus would do)
As long as they like punching themselves in the face, I say don't stop. xD
OK, I am 6"4" 250 lbs, a preacher, martial arts instructor, whitewater raft guide, driven race cars, fought professionally, been a fashion photographer and an am an ex Marine. I have a bit of a temper and don't take crap off anyone. I have come to see this as weakness, severe weakness. I have seen people who are not manly men in the above sense, show far more back bone in situations than I ever could have. I have watched them face cancer and do so with a smile and keeping their sense of humor as well as their love for the lord never feeling sorry for themselves. They have stood strong in the face of overwhelming odds and persecution. What makes a man is not the size of his....bicep's, it is the size of his faith and his love for his family and others. Yes I think that the church has been feminized and that needs to, and is changing but the measure of a man is not peeing standing up, I know many great men in wheel chairs. If this is the stuff this guy is preaching then he is wrong. A man stands when he needs to stand, not when he is trying to prove something to himself or others. Sounds like these guys are just trying to be popular and most likely some money. The church is a mess and what I am hearing about the guys in the article they are adding to the problem. Jesus showed us that being a man was far more than being the strongest. Those who are trying to prove their manhood by acting tough or brave without really having to be are a big part of the problem. I spent a lot of time learning this lesson maybe these guys ought to spend some time there. We live in a time of "experts" people are drawn to the names and so forth. It is great for making money but not so good for life. We need less seminars and more men just standing up for what is right and doing what is needed.
Wish I was there...I'm a pastor, and I would have loved to pop his arrogant mug.
This country and this world doesn't need more men to stop being "sissies," it needs the Word of God. The Word brings understanding, knowledge, life, etc. How many people that go to church actually read the Bible and make it a part of their everyday life and how they live. You'd be surprised how many people that are "christians" and go to church never pick up a Bible.
I was raised in the church of the Big Hair where their motto should have been: " Real Men Spray Together ".. The Doo's on our pastors, deacons and elders could have withstood a Category 5 Hurricane. Al Gore would have attributed Global Warming to them... Maybe there is more to the Sissyman than just another swinging skirt...
Selah (Pause and Ponder)Preach it Driscol....
I'm just now reading this. Thanks for putting this out there. I've had a bad experience with Mars Hill.
Ok, re read the article. Its a parody. Its not real. Holy crap get a joke and quit hatin.
This sounds like another flavor of the month! Why don't we all stop worrying about how church should be lived and just live your life as you see best, with out the fear of hell. God will show what is right and wrong in due time. We are all different and will always be different so quite claiming you have the answers, because I have heard it all countless times before.
A woman's point of view:
Mark Driscoll oppresses men and should not be allowed to speak in public. Since when is gender defined by a bullying and penis-centered pathetic anglo-centric privileged asshole? Driscoll is a big bully who publicly shames men for being different then him, and gets off by other 'manly' men affirming him. I wish I could say that I was better than Mark Driscoll, and accept him for who he is, but I am just as bad as he is because I am judging him without even really knowing him. Maybe the 'sissies' offend him and he can't help but using them as a platform to vent his anger about who knows what, just like I am offended by him and am using him as a platform to vent my anger against evangelical religion. Who knows why I have become so angry at organized evangelical religion that is as exclusive as it is offensive? I am sure that there are a million more reasons than the fact that evangelical Christianity breeds religious supremacy where those who don't believe a certain way deserve to go to 'hell'. To be clear, this rant is mostly against Mark Driscoll, but also evangelical religion. One dude I will certainly never rant about, or even dream of comparing to Driscoll, is Jesus. I can actually really respect what Jesus is about, because despite his opportunities to manipulate power, he rejected it at all cost and spent his time making sure that everyone knew that he loved them just the way they were. I wonder if the 'sissies' feel love from Mark Driscoll? Oh, and just so that I am not scorned for not being 'bible based', here are a few verses to support my thoughts. (I would just like to point out that claiming to be 'bible based' just means that you are really good at "interpreting" the bible in a way that supports what you say.)
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
John 3:17
"that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation"
2 Corinthians 5:19
One last question. Would Driscoll be manly enough to give his life for the 'sissies'?
mark is way too excited about manliness. I am a very ugg me a dude guy but holy crap! just go ahead, suck the c*ck once, mark, i can tell you want to.......then cry about it....you aren't really gay you just feel that way sometimes..it is ok mark. jesus loves you even though you are a mean, hateful, spiteful, arrogant bastard. he really does.
Hmmm... didn't Jesus say something about another cheek. I think he also wore a robe and sandals. Hlived with his mother into his 30s. Sounds pretty sissy to me. Time for a rethink, Driscoll.
OK - one more thing - I'm a former pastor and former naval officer and I did several years with the special warfare command. I just love life-long civilians who talk tougher than a Bullfrog who has actually seen the elephant has experienced extraordinary violence. Just saying. The term sissy is quite relative.
Tobacco and violence... I knew there was something missing in the church!
Regardless of how people think of Mark Driscoll,
the spiritual battle in this world needs
to be addressed and fought, all of which
Driscoll has the guts to do.
FYI so called Pastors....... Proverbs 15:4 says “a wholesome tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit”. Proverbs 21:23 says “whoso keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps his soul from troubles”.
So, did any of you notice that this is in the parody section. Are we really that blind to the obvious? I suppose some of you even respond to the email you get from the banking minister of Uganda telling you he wants to give you $500,000,000.00 for helping him transfer the money. IT'S NOT REAL!!! Hello!!!
The next time you go online don't assume everything you read is true, use common sense. Check your FACTS.
And for those of you who don't know what facts are, here is the definition: something that actually exists; reality; truth.
first things first.
driscoll clearly has very small willy.
he claims to be a theologian, a serious reformed thinker and a man passionate about the gospel. all i can see from driscoll's stuff is that he is a chauvinistic, superficial, thoughtless man who should not be allowed to claim to stand in the tradition of Calvin, Luther, jonathan edwards or anyone else who had actually thought through their theology.
his theology is a not a theology of the cross, of humility and of peace and righteousness but a theology of glory, violence of superficial dogmatism and of bigotry.
he has a serious complex.
first things first.
driscoll clearly has very small willy.
he claims to be a theologian, a serious reformed thinker and a man passionate about the gospel. all i can see from driscoll's stuff is that he is a chauvinistic, superficial, thoughtless man who should not be allowed to claim to stand in the tradition of Calvin, Luther, jonathan edwards or anyone else who had actually thought through their theology.
his theology is a not a theology of the cross, of humility and of peace and righteousness but a theology of glory, violence of superficial dogmatism and of bigotry.
he has a serious complex.
Wow, this is the perfect picture of dysfunction. On one hand we have Mark D spouting some weird stuff to make a decent point. The Godly man with a back bone is decidedly absent from our culture. I agree that we as Christians are prone to jump on board with the latest spiritual fad. However, I don't like how Mark is trying to get this message across, but if it fully convinces certain men to claim their true identity in Christ, I am all for it. And for so many of us who suppose to discern who is sound theologically and who is not, many of us are not qualified in our own study of the bible to actually know what is and isn't good theology, we are just regurgitating what we have learned from others during our lives. we all need our own opinions and we need to acknowledge they are just that, opinions. But the Church is in desperate need of men who are willing to unwaveringly pursue Christ and the word and not to back down from those who try to suppress the truth.
Mark Driscoll and BAM BAM Bentley should start a christian wrestling league!! These guys are ridiculous and play to the new wave Gen Xers through portraying their radicalism for Jesus crap.
There seems to be a Hell of a lot of overcompensation going on with both these guys. I am not for real sure that they do not in fact struggle with their own masculinity.
Gandhi and Christ were neither red-blooded meat eating men and would be wholly rejected by Driscoll's drivel. I submit the mark of a real man is standing for right and self sacrifice for love of others.
A note I sent to the pastor:
Dear pastor Driscoll,
You did a superb job on Nightline, thanks a lot!
The notorious Satanist Alistair Crowley’s motto was “Do as thou wilt.” A great admirer of Crowley (they even had a correspondence for a while), L. Ron Hubbard’s motto was “It’s true only if it’s true for you.” In fact, this is still a catch-phrase that Scientology uses to rope people in, making it all about their “own personal truths.”
But of course who is the supplier of these “truths,” that can only be obtained through more and more “graduated levels?” .. why, L. Ron Hubbard of course.
Those two gentlemen debating you were just saying the same old Satanist thing. That it’s all about our own individual truths based on what we experience. And how do you climb the ladder so that you won’t be “primitive” anymore? .. why you buy another D. Chopra book, that’s how.
These are deceivers who need people not to believe in the Christ that is, but a false Christ cast in an image that suits themselves. Not a Christ that resurrected from the dead, paid for our salvation with his precious blood, told us in an unblemished fashion how Evil exists, but a vague “Christ Energy” nonsense that you experience up higher levels. Then after buying into this lunacy, a person now needs D. Chopra to feed them the higher levels.
And this person writes books about Jesus? Which Jesus would that be? Everything the Lord said was completely opposite of D. Chopra. The Love of God is now. The Kingdom is not of man-made levels. Fools and deceivers who say there is no Satan, not with the ultimate goal of tricking people out of Satan, but tricking them out of God, and replacing it with a God that suits their purpose. Dark hearts they are, and you did a brilliant job of standing up. Thank you for your efforts!
All I know is that Mark Driscoll does not speak for me, and I don't think it's because I'm any the less a Christian than he is.
Driscoll is reaching the younger generation where as NO ONE ELSE IS!
As a young woman of the younger generation who lived in household with a verbally abusive father-figure, I could have used a man of God who spent less time asserting his masculinity and more time learning to speak softly and love gently. There is enough sexism without the church encouraging it from the pulpit. If this language connects to my male peers, then that frightens me.
I am shocked at how many people miss what Mark is trying to say. I also think you should listen to his sermons which are fantastic. A lot of his teachings are in an area of the US where Men act like ally cats (screw the female and bail when she is pregnant) and don't know the first thing about what its like to really be a Man. I don't think a church that is very girly will even remotely appeal to these people, little lone wake them up and get them to realize that they are acting like little boys. This guy has his head on straight.
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Interesting blog, ive bookmarked it buy anavar
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Interesting blog, ive bookmarked it buy anavar
see ya
This guy is misogynistic, homophobic, angry and out of touch with Jesus's teachings of love, acceptance and kindness. What an asshole. His so called church is more like a Nazi corporation, revving up fear and hatred.
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
Interesting article, i have bookmarked your blog for future referrence
this is so bogus, i doubt this is true anyways, its mostly made up
Sometimes you just get lucky - Success can occur when you least expect it. Sometimes a half-hearted effort turns out to be pure genius and you’re hailed a hero. While congratulations are in order, don’t expect this to be the case and don’t bother too hard trying to work out how to emulate this fluke success. If we could all do that, we’d all know the answer by now. Although you could try to make your own luck…
Sometimes other people just get lucky - All that hard work you put in to something may end up getting you nowhere special. Then someone else comes along and strikes it lucky without even trying. Again, you won’t be able to emulate that success. And it’s certainly not worth dwelling upon. You’ll get your fair share of success if you follow the 10 keys set out above…
Well, that was my 2 cents LOL… thx for reading
You poor, sick mugs! What is this? Where is the tolerance, the understanding, the forgiveness?
Is this what your religion is all about? God! What God is this? Who is God. Ask the Jew, the Muslim, the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Sihk. whose God are you talking about? They all believe that they are right and that they are going to be saved when The apocolypse arrives.
Religion has caused more trouble and wars than even money and what I see and read here confirms that you have serious problems!
Thankfully I´m an Aetheist and just want to get as much joy and happiness everyday.
And please dont write that I´m some sort of pussy or a faggot I´ve heard it all before from those suffering from delusions of grandeur, megalomania, paranoia, and narcissism and hide behind Gods words.
Perhaps you are closer to the Kingdom than some who think they are!
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