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DISCUSSMark Driscoll Kicks His Own Ass
07/01/2008By Jesse Benjamin
Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, took a dramatic stand against girly men at a Pastor’s Conference in Houston last week.
The conference, called “re:tool and re:load,” previously billed as “jesus 2.0,” featured speakers from around the country with the stated focus of “Making the Gospel and Missiology Relevant to Post Modern Culture.” Speaking at the last session of the conference, Driscoll focused his three-and-a-half-hour talk on the need for pastors to be more alpha.
“The problem with our churches today is that the lead pastor is some sissy boy who wears cardigan sweaters, has The Carpenters dialed in on his iPod, gets his hair cut at a salon instead of a barber shop, hasn’t been to an Ultimate Fighting match, works out on an elliptical machine instead of going to isolated regions of Russia like in Rocky IV in order to harvest lumber with his teeth, and generally swishes around like Jack from Three’s Company whenever Mr. Roper was around.”
Pacing the stage in a vaguely threatening manner, Driscoll focused on Biblical examples. “Jesus and Paul were serious dudes. They had teeth missing. Jesus was a carpenter, Paul was in prison. These guys didn’t eat tofu dogs and bean sprouts. They didn’t play tennis. If there were trucks back in their times, they would have been doing driveway lube jobs on a Saturday afternoon. Same thing with King David. Yeah, he might have played a lyre, but he slaughtered thousands of guys.”
The 300 pastors from around the country roared with approval, even though many of them had heard the same labored formulations at previous conferences called “reGeneration” and “resurge and reform.”
“At the Re:Ignite conference he talked about how Jesus and Peter didn’t wear matching sweatshirts that said ‘Best Buds’,” said John Kinston, a conference attendee who was live-blogging the event.
Kinston is emblematic of the many young pastors who support Driscoll. He planted Kiona Community Church three years ago in downtown Louisville, Kentucky. He attends 37 Mark Driscoll conferences each year, because he said he needs the support of fellow church planters and the inspiration of steroidal statistics.
“Numbers aren’t important, but we’ve grown 81.7% a year since our launch date and I still can’t get the guys to step up and be warriors," said Kinston. "We want to love our city and we can’t do that with a bunch of pansies who would rather play video games than go to a monster truck rally or tattoo their faces like Mike Tyson.
“At last year’s Converging Conference, Driscoll talked about standing up when you piss and I got really excited. We started a men’s-only Bible Accountability Group. It was a combination of scripture study and Muy Thai Stick Fighting. It was great for a few weeks, until my worship pastor lost an eye. I had to make a tough call then and there: no more Muy Thai Stick Fighting at Kiona Community without protective face gear. I still think it might have been a spiritual compromise.”
In Houston, Driscoll was intent on making absolutely clear that he is in favor of masculinity. At the 2 hour, 15 minute mark, he invited five pastors from the audience to take the stage, put his hands behind his back, stuck out his chin, and said, “Hit me with your best shot. Go on. I won’t hit you back. I want to show everyone what this is all about.” When none of the five took a swing, Driscoll had them escorted from the building and proceeded to hit himself five times.
“This is what being a pastor is about, guys. If you can’t handle it, go back to teaching yoga or playing My Little Pony with the other girls.”
The rest of the session followed the same general tone, with Driscoll ridiculing insulated coffee cups, haiku and dental floss as feminine while extolling athletic cups, tobacco spit and broken load-bearing bones as being “essential for a pastor.”
The blogosphere heated up quickly in the wake of Driscoll’s talk. At Jesuswasaman.blogspot.com, one post read, “This is the only thing that will turn back the tide of the Church’s decline in America. Until more guys step up and start punching themselves in the face, people will continue to leave the Church.”
Driscoll’s detractors had their say as well. At thereisaplacefordriscollinhellbesidehitler.wordpress.com, Angel23 said, “It doesn’t matter that Driscoll’s church has 6,000 people coming to worship God, if he continues to use words like sissy he will be smited.”
Driscoll turned down our request for an interview, saying, “Interviews are for wimpy guys who wear Sans-a-Belt slacks and chew sugar-free gum.”
Is Driscoll the Bizarro Rob Bell? Both pastor churches called Mars Hill, and both are (supposedly in driscolls case) emergent pastors, but they are total opposites. Bell is like a gen-x Mr. Rogers and Driscoll wishes he were Hulk Hogan. Christendom is ever so entertaining. The Door should do "Christian Celebrity Death Match".
Bell, I can relate to; Driscoll I can only roll my eyes at and sigh.
Ya, I like Bell too. One of the few I can sit all the way through.
The other "one" I like is Jay Bakker.
Speaking of Bell, he had Phyllis Tickle speak this past Sunday; I haven't listened to her message, but it should be interesting to hear.
Because he addresses things like the virgin birth of Christ not true, and that we can no longer be sure of what's what in the Bible? Sit away.
In his "denying of the virgin birth" he was making a rhetorical point, it would be like taking a sound bite from a pastor talking about sinful things and and claiming that he was teaching people to be sinful. Quotes devoid of their intended context can be taken in many directions they were not intended.
I've listened to both Bell and Driscoll, and I've never heard either of them say something that caught my eye as heretical. They have different styles yes, and some different interpretations of things, but they are both doing their best to spread the word of God.
Bell preaches heresy. Driscoll is Biblical with a touch of being very OUT THERE. Driscoll broke from the Emerging Church and the heresy taught and now teaches at seminars with the likes of John Piper, C.J.Mahaney and Al Mohler.
Whoever suggests that DRISCOLL left the emergent church because of heresy, really should get the facts straight. First, He still calls himself "EMERGING" different than emergent,and second he is a strict calvinistic biblicist, both of which are derived form the 16th century PRO REF... NOt Words from JESUS' mouth... so be careful PAUL. Second, I think people should have punched him I would and then called him an idiot. Sure why aren't men more manly... that's the problem with the world!! Gimme a break. As if manly was described by the amount of football you play, or how much weight you lift... Strange I don't remember hearing anything on the cross about JESUS being like OH YEAH GIMME MORE I CAN TAKE IT!
What a bunch of gunk and propaganda.
John, you know that this is a satirical humor site, right?
I agree with the weight lifting and football. But you got to admit. Jesus was a bad ass.
Paul, can I ask what your definition of heresy is?
Listen to yourselves, "Christians". Which God are you following? Lord Driscoll? The Bell Diety? It's a bit shameful, or was Driscoll crucified to you? Were you baptized in the name of Bell?
Read 1 Corinthians 1. Repent. Then focus outward so that you may produce the fruit of bringing others into the knowledge of Jesus. Pathetic Christians.
Bell is a borderline heretic, If this were a few hundred years ago they would have burned him.
Brian. Did you really just say that? you are backing him up and i know you didn't mean to. jesus was crucified. they might have burned Bell for teaching the Gospel and its truths. I'm positive he would rejoice in a death of that nature, because he would be sacrificing his life for the love of Jesus.
It is likely that you would be hard pressed to get Bell to commit to being an emergent pastor; although it certainly seems he has some of those tendencies.
Dog is still speaking.
No. Driscoll is embarrassed that his church is the same name as Rob Bell. Driscoll teaches from the Bible, doing it extremely blunt, too blunt for some. Bell's "Bible" is so watered down to nothing. Driscoll talks about how his Christian fundamentals is never changing from the old testament. But his ways to get them across are progressively changing. Bell on the other hand is progressively changing both.
Do you think men need to be creative enough to come up with a new name. Jesus didn't name his church.
I like Bell but I think driscoll rocks, I really enjoy the fact that he tells it how it is and doesnt feel the need to impress the churched people while going after the lost, as christians we all need to focus on the lost and stop at nothing that isnt sinning!
That's awesome! I would watch it!!!
I love Mark and wish all Christian men would put on the full armor of God and act like a real man - protect, provide, nurture and be ready to fight for the Gospel.
Driscoll is an amazing man of God. This article loses credibility in its last quoting. Learn to get credible sources!
Driscoll is an idiot. He wants all the focus of him...it is not about Christ but rather about him.
He's forgotton some of the truths about speech seasoned with salt.
I should try to love the man...but I hate what his view is.
Why do you persecute people for their personality traits. I know men who are rough and tumble and I know men who are more studious. It has nothing to do with relegion. Jesus uses who we are...where we are.
I don't want to be to harsh towards Mark Driscoll because he does have some good things to say. But the way he is acting with his Christian-WWF stylized idea of manhood just shows ignorance. And his attacks upon other Christian leaders who he thinks are pansies, or whatever, is almost hateful. Personality does have some parts to play in this discussion, but then who is he to say that a man with a less confrontational and butch personality is less of a man? He is being judgemental. Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, and various other Emergent leaders I personally see as much harder to listen to as a reflective follower of Christ, because their sermons and books have messages that the majority culture doesn't want to hear. Most church people in America are uncomfortable with them because of how far they and others with them are willing to go for Jesus. The most un-confrontational person I can think of happens to be the same one who has thrown himself in many situations that many Driscoll type of "men" wouldn't dare put themselves into without a gun. Shane Claiborne went to Iraq in the midst of the bombing, in order to be with the people of Iraq in that time of war.
Point being to this reply, personality does contribute to how we all act, but Jesus wants to transform all of us into people who live like Him. I agree that Jesus was a real "Man", but you don't see him going around punching himself in the face, (or anything remotely similar) to prove his manliness.
The reason why Driscoll is so harsh is because many of these "emergent pastors" have stepped away from God's teaching on basic beliefs in Christianity. We are supposed to rebuke the religious leaders who are leading people away to some other belief in Christ that is not true. Rebuke away Mark! All you people who think we need to just be nice and accept everyone...Get a life! Jesus rebuked the Pharisees who were skewing what the Bible taught.
Dude. thank you.
Give me a break. I love Rob. I don't agree with everything he says but I love him and what he does for people. I'm so sick of Christians spending sooo much time arguing dogma that they completely forget the 'widows and orphans'. Driscoll is a chest-beater that thinks he's 'radical'. Please. I love how 10 different pastors will have 10 different opinions on any give passage in the Bible. So Rebuke away and watch the rest of us simply walk away.
And just what is wrong with girly men?
go right no simply walking away from, the truth, from Jesus, and in the end Life(the life that comes from The truth of Jesus)! Driscoll is willing to stand up and speak Truth(big T), Rob has a new and (maybe) dangerous idea of turth(small t).
First of all, dude (and I'm assuming you're a dude, because I doubt there are too many un-battered women who agree with Driscoll)... learn how to spell! And the internet is already anonymous without you compounding that by making that your name to post - own your opinions!
Second of all, if you really believe Driscoll's got the TRUTH, how effective do you think you are being in spreading that message by screaming incoherently at anyone who disagrees with him? Jesus met people where they were. Driscoll is no Jesus, and anyone who claims that some dude talking now can have a direct scope on what Jesus meant two thousand years ago is delusional. We live by faith, not by knowledge.
Third of all, Driscoll reminds me of the guy who called me a "fag" for suggesting that he was getting a bit out of hand screaming at people in a pick-up soccer game on the lawn of my University. It's not a Christian description of masculinity he's touting, it's a redneck, bully, blustering kind of maleness that has to attack anything other than brute force because it reminds him of what he probably thinks he is - a big dumb ox with real small ideas.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear about this guy getting arrested for selling illegal steroids out of the trunk of his car, or beating up some kid in his youth group for partaking of "girly" activities like painting or playing an acoustic guitar unplugged.
This guy is like Benny Hinn for forty-year-old jocks who never left high school.
A wise friend told me recently that I need to make sure I'm loving on the deluded heretics I meet in the church as well - and that's true - but there comes a time when the most loving thing you can do is call someone out as a wolf who's not even bothering with sheep's clothing.
Thank you for sharing. I agree with you completely. I am at a loss of words for this frat boy parading around as a divine gift from God.
*Sips Starbucks and repents via completion of 3 Hail Driscoll's and a punch to the groin.*
HAHAHA now that is just plain funny! I actually like both of these knuckleheads. They both have some good points.
However hitting ones self repeatedly to prove how manly you are isn't one of them. Honestly that is one of the most pathetic things I have heard or seen. I wonder if Driscoll has ever had to pick up what was left of a little boy who stepped on a landmine, has ever had his buddy next to him hit in the head with a bullet and had to look this guy in the eye as he died, seen the pain in a little girls eyes after she had been raped, been in a prison, had his entire family killed by a drunk driver, or any number of other things I have seen my friends go through these things and still remain faithful to God and Christ. I can tell you some silently bucked up under intense pressure, some openly wept, I did while holding that little boy, others cursed, and others simply went away to be by themselves. These guys are men. This isn't to say that if you have not been through this then you are not a man. I am saying that the frat boy silliness that Driscoll spews is not in any way what being a man is about. I have known men far more manly than Driscoll is, doing the very things he says are for girly men. These are guys that have been in the thick of it and have never said "Jeez if I do this will I be manly or girly, hummmmm?" A real man sees what needs to be done and just does it. He could care less what knuckleheads like Driscoll think of them. They care what God thinks of them. And if they are married they care what their family thinks as well. That's it, period.
i know Mark Driscoll I have actually spoken with him face to face unlike most of these bloggers. I understand why you think Mark hasnt gone through anything tough in his life such as some of the things you listed, but its because its not his job to stand on the stage and tell you everything he has gone through. Its his job to teach people about jesus and how to be like jesus. That is what he does. For the people who actually know him, rather than all the bloggers who think they know him because they heard about him or just listened to one of his sermons, they know that he is not just a pastor, he is also a counselor. Between the 4 live sermons he preaches every sunday, he actually counsels people in between them listening to what they say, and helping them through their struggles. The thing is, not to many people realize this because he doesnt stand on the stage and tell the audience people struggles. He preaches jesus and when he is not preaching jesus, he is counseling the people who are struggling to understand jesus.
But to teach people to be like Jesus, doesn't he have to be like Jesus? Doesn't sound like the Jesus from the Bible to punch himself in the face like that. Maybe a caricature of Jesus or some man-made thing.
Amen...Amen...Amen!!!
Interesting example, rebuking the Pharisees. . . the religious leaders at the time. The ones that everyone thought had it right. . . much like mainstream evangelicals which is Mark Driscoll. Jesus was rebuking them most often for being too legalistic and not accepting. Just a thought, MD really lost it for me with his response to the Ted H. situation. . . how unloving and judgemental can you get?
He didn't rebuke the pharisees for their knowledge he rebuked them for the way they treated people... you know without love and acceptance. They used their interpretation of to be cruel to people they considered "dirty"... you proved the opposite of your point tool!
Be careful you don't confuse 'God's teaching' with man's interpretation of God's teaching. This is often why wars are fought and people die. Let God be true and every man a liar--this includes those who think they're heroes of the faith and guardians of 'God's teaching.' God doesn't need heroes or champions for his cause--he's bigger than that.
What are these "emergent pastors" preaching that is so far removed from God's teaching on basic beliefs in Christianity? Everyone just says it's watering down the message of Christ, considering this both Bell and Claiborne are labeled as Emergent.
Why shouldn't MANhood be more Manly?
Mark has problems with the emergent church because they are throwing out the doctrines of: the trinity, the virgin birth, and jesus' resurrection.
Why in the world would "Driscoll type" men be afraid of going to Iraq? I know people who still vacation there. At this point you are simply needlessly bashing. That has nothing to do with anything and you know it.
Lastly, how in the world is the emergent movement supposed to "Say" anything? The whole point is its just a big discussion.
Rob hasn't thrown out any of the 'basic beliefs' of Christianity. The Trinity (even though IT ISN'T MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE), The Virgin Birth or the Resurrection. He has affirmed all of those beliefs. He has simply asked questions of them to make people think. God forbid anyone in the Christian community actually 'thinks' about any of these issues.
Driscoll's latest attack on 'The Shack' is a joke. I don't care if he hates to book but by telling others not to read it, he is basically saying 'I will inform you of all the truth you need; no need to educate yourselves'. That is arrogance on another level.
Bell ought to be very careful as to who he looks to for spiritual guidance (e.g. Brian McLaren), the words that he uses to express his thoughts, who he has speak at his church and endorses:
One example from "Velvet Elvis":
"What if tomorrow someone digs up definitive proof that Jesus had a real, earthly, biological father named Larry, and archaeologists find Larry's tomb and do DNA samples and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the virgin birth was really just a bit of mythologizing the Gospel writers threw in to appeal to the followers of the Mithra and Dionysian religious cults that were hugely popular at the time of Jesus, whose gods had virgin births? But what if as you study the origin of the word virgin, you discover that the word virgin in the gospel of Matthew actually comes from the book of Isaiah, and then you find out that in the Hebrew language at that time, the word virgin could mean several things. And what if you discover that in the first century being "born of a virgin" also referred to a child whose mother became pregnant the first time she had intercourse?” p26
It's a hypothetical. He's not actually claiming these things.
I think the point of the hypothetical is to explain that we need to be willing to look for truth, even if there is a chance that the truth might make us uncomfortable.
Then we need to believe that God is bigger than the details, and the problems we encounter don't demean or disprove Him, but rather suggest that maybe we've been assembling and interpreting the pieces incorrectly.
Because if God can't hold up to our investigation, then why on earth should we believe in him?
Bravo Geoff...bravo.
Mark is just being Mark. He is passionate about men being men-especially here in Seattle.
Mark Driscoll does not seem to know the risen Jesus personally. At all. I don't claim to be tight with Jesus but I know Jesus a bit (I have read the gospels) and Mark is closer to fight club and a demonic spirit of violence and vengeance than the PAX CHRISTI.
Blessed are the meek...F*CK MEEK! HIT ME! I AM MARK!!!! ARGGGG!
"do not resist the evildoer....F*CK EM UP!"
seriously, I used to be a conservative evangelical and john piper lover. and if I still was, I would be SO EMBARRASSED.
"hey, I will be a huge, cocky, arrogant, foul mouthed bastard, and the lost and unsaved will find a common sinful attitutde with me and then I will slip in a little Jesus with my hatemongering, hypermasculine, complety unchristlike self."
Pete, I am an evangelical, some might consider me conservative. And I am not one bit embarrassed of Mark Driscoll. You see, I don't take what he said literally. He makes jokes, funny haha; not 'oh you mean I really have to jump in the octagon with Chuck Liddell to be used of Christ? ok..' He uses humor like any comedian uses humor. The funny part about humor is that there is a little bit of truth in it. You would most likely see skinny guys in sweaters sitting at a coffee house, that's why it's funny. Now, there may be a guy who is 250, can bench 550 and just likes coffee and free internet. You may not want to call him a sissy, atleast within arms length. The point is humor has 'some' truth to it, that's why it's funny. Some people relate to Driscoll's humor, personally I do. Others don't and get offended. That's like a black guy who is insecure about being black getting offended when Chris Rock makes a black joke. The people getting offended may want to have a gut check moment.
I agree totally. I am 60, 6'4', 220, still pump iron 3 days a week and my favorite past time is shooting hand guns. But Driscoll is ignorant apparently that God chooses who He will use. One of the most effective soul winning pastors I ever knew was small, quite and had a heart so tender he would often weep from the pulpit as he plead for souls. He loved people into the Kingdom by showing humility, love and compassion. He stood about 5'6" and ministered mightily into his 80's. Even in his last decade of ministry, his church led our area in baptisms. He knew the Lord intimately and walked humbly with Him everyday. Driscoll may have impressed the crowd but the man I speak of I know pleased his Lord. There is a big difference. Driscoll may learn that one day, maybe in a terrible way.
I'm guessing the people who had a problem with the "tough" actions of Mark Driscoll are probably the ones who are limp-wristed and feel they can't be a manly man if it requires hitting themselves in the face. Jesus, as far as I know, never punched himself in the face; there were always people ready and willing to do that for him. The point Driscoll is making is that the "church" in general has been so watered down, so tainted, so legalized, so traditionalized because the "men" in charge haven't taken a stand for what is right. How many denominations are there today? 100's! This alone shows the girlyness of the people at the top. It is exactly how girls handle fights, I should know, I have five sisters. "I don't like you, I'm taking my friends are we are haning out over here." Guys disagree, maybe wrestle, maybe a few punches are thrown, but they remain friends and agree to disagree. I've read Shane Claiborne's book as well, loved it. Would he punch himself in the face? No. Is that the point? No. He is reaching people you and I could never reach, people Driscoll could never reach, but that is his calling. He is a man in his own right. The Emergent Village is full of pastors who are both physically and figuratively girly-men; as Arnold would say. No backbone to stand up for what is Biblical. Driscoll is advocating for figurative manly Christians, it just so happens he is figurative and physical.
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